S. Blackburn Blackpool Borough Council

J. M. A. Boyle Conwy County Borough Council

G. Friel Sefton Metropolitan Borough Council

T. R. Glover Sefton Metropolitan Borough Council

C. Grunshaw Lancashire County Council

J. Hale Wirral Borough Council

M. S. Hamer Lancashire County Council

G. Hancock DEFRA

H. P. Hughes Gwynedd County Council

J. Jones Flintshire County Council

T. Jones Welsh Assembly Government

M. J. Kaiser Welsh Assembly Government

D. T. Knowles Wirral Metropolitan Borough Council

S. J. Lockwood Welsh Assembly Government

A. Marklew DEFRA

K. Mould Welsh Assembly Government

R. L. Owen Anglesey County Council

D. Owens Denbighshire County Council

M. Porter DEFRA

O. J. Roberts Welsh Assembly Government

W. T. Roberts Anglesey County Council

E. D. Tew Conwy County Borough Council

T. J. Watson DEFRA

S. M. Atkins J. Davies

I. V. Andrews H. Frost

M. R. Boyce V. Hickin

W. Cook G. Hughes

The Chief Executive opened the meeting by calling for nominations for Chairman for the year.

It was unanimously

1. Councillor T. R. Glover be reappointed Chairman of the Joint Committee for the forthcoming year.

Members declared their interest in Agenda items as follows:-

Item 8b. Appointment of Representatives to Sefton Beach Consultation Group. Mr. A. Marklew.

Item 13 – Seed Mussel Movements. Mr. K. Mould, Mr. T. Jones

Item 15 – Slipper Limpets (Crepidula fornicata) in the Menai Strait. Mr. K. Mould, Mr. T. Jones.

Item 18 – Fishery Order Applications: Progress Report. Mr. T. Jones

Councillor R. L. Owen declared an interest in the event that any discussion took place on the proposed Gallows Point Marina.

It was unanimously

1. That Dr. S. J. Lockwood be reappointed Vice-Chairman (Wales) of the Joint Committee until the Annual Meeting in 2008.

Two nominations were received and a ballot was held, the results of which were:

Councillor V. K. Riley 6 votes

Councillor D. Knowles 8 votes

(9 abstentions)

and it was

1. That Councillor D. T. Knowles be appointed Vice-Chairman (England) of the Joint Committee until the Annual Meeting in 2008.

The Chairman introduced the Officer’s report and reminded Members of the membership of this group.

The Chairman introduced the Officer’s report and it was

The Chairman introduced the Officer’s report and reminded Members that currently the Joint Committee’s representative was the Chairman, with the Vice-Chairs available to deputise if required.

The Chairman introduced the report seeking appointment of Members to represent the Joint Committee at various fora within the District.

The Senior Scientific Officer introduced the report informing Members of progress with the proposed cockle cultivation experiment in the Ribble Estuary. Members were reminded of the resolution to support an experiment to relay 60 tonnes of juvenile cockles onto an area in the Ribble Estuary. Following discussions with the applicant it had been suggested that cockles from the 2007 spatfall should be taken from the Ribble Estuary itself for relaying on the experimental area. Members were advised that the trial was unable to proceed at present as no spatfall had taken place on the Ribble. There had been widespread spatfall at Middleton and Pilling Sands in Morecambe Bay and Officers were suggesting that harvesting of the seed cockles should be permitted under a one-off Byelaw 1 authorisation to mechanically gather them. The cultivation trial would require a Byelaw 12 authorisation.

Dr. Lockwood pointed out that any cockles removed from Morecambe Bay would be from within the SAC and there would be a requirement for an appropriate assessment. Mr. Cook said although the activity would constitute a plan or project, it was hoped that Natural England would agree that it would have no significant effect and therefore no appropriate assessment would be necessary.

Following further discussion it was agreed that the trial should be allowed to proceed provided the agreement of Natural England could be obtained to the activity.

The Senior Scientific Officer updated Members with the situation on utilisation of seed mussel resources in the District in 2007. The operation to relay 750 tonnes of Morecambe Bay mussels at Conwy in 2006 had not been very successful. The Morfa bed had shown good initial results but heavy losses had occurred in early 2007. Enough mussels remained for 100 tonnes of small mussels to be taken to the Menai Strait and for 150 tonnes of mixed size to be relaid near Green Island.

In north Morecambe Bay a significant amount of the 2006 spatfall had survived the winter but these were being heavily predated by starfish. Officers had renewed dredging authorisations to remove the mussels before they were predated.

The operation to relay 1,000 tonnes of seed mussels from Morecambe Bay onto Ballast Bank seemed to have been successful but it was felt that this would benefit the fishery in the future rather than for the coming season.

There had been little spatfall in Morecambe Bay in 2007and seed mussel was short at the moment. Officers had observed stocks at Heysham Flat and Foulney Twist where the mussels were perhaps too dense. It was felt that if those stocks were thinned out this could result in an enhanced stock that could be hand gathered by local fishermen. It was suggested that consultation should take place with Natural England and the two Fishermen’s Associations on the north side of Morecambe Bay to reach agreement for the authorisation of removal of a percentage of the mussel stock by dredging.

                2. That the report be received.

The Senior Scientific Officer reported that the experimental dredge survey for razor fish in Liverpool Bay had now been completed and it was understood that areas with commercial potential had been identified. Officers had agreed amendments to the original proposed authorised area and Members’ endorsement of the amendments was sought. The operators felt they now had sufficient information to submit an application to DEFRA for a Several Order

In response to a suggestion that the developers should be asked to produce evidence of the results of the survey, Mr. Cook said that a copy of the results had been received which were at present "Commercial in Confidence". If Members wished he could approach the developers to ascertain to what extent they would be prepared to divulge the results.

Prof. Kaiser pointed out that a good deal of work had been done on the distribution and sensitivity of scoter duck in that part of Liverpool Bay. He was concerned that the developer may have been misled into paying for survey work in parts of the Liverpool Bay SPA where any fishery would be precluded on environmental grounds. It was agreed that Dr. Kaiser should discuss this Mr. Cook after the meeting, and if necessary with Natural England to express concern over this issue.

Mr. Cook reminded Members that the purpose of the survey was to establish whether there were sufficient stocks of razor fish to form the base of an application for a Several Order. The developer felt that the results of the survey supported that conclusion.

Following discussion it was

                2. That the report be received.

The Senior Scientific Officer provided a verbal update on the infestation of slipper limpets in the Menai Strait and reminded Members of the background to this. Officers intended to carry out a further survey of the area and a report would be provided to a future meeting of the Joint Committee.

1. That the report be received.

The Chief Executive reported on a request from CCW for stronger protection measures for the Marine Protected Area off the north coast of the North Llyn Peninsula. The MPA had been set up to protect the horse mussel reef from damage by scallop dredging. CCW had carried out a survey of the area which appeared to indicate that scallop dredges and other mobile gear had been used in the area.

Members were advised that CCW had applied to the National Assembly for Wales for a Section 5 Order to restrict the use of all mobile fishing gear in the area. NAW had indicated that more evidence was needed before a Stop Order could be made. Officers also were not convinced that CCW had provided sufficient evidence of trawling taking place in the area to warrant the Committee taking the step of introducing a byelaw and Members’ instructions on this matter were sought.

Councillor Hughes suggested that CCW had already provided sufficient evidence and felt that the Committee should proceed with the drafting of a byelaw to ban all mobile fishing gear from the MPA. Dr. Lockwood supported this view.

Mr. O. J. Roberts felt that the CCW evidence was not sufficient for fishing to be stopped and that further evidence of possible damage should be sought.

An amendment to the recommendation in the report was proposed that Officers should prepare a draft byelaw to ban all mobile gear from the reef area and following a vote of 9 in favour and 8 against it was

The Marine Biodiversity Officer introduced the report informing Members of progress with this post. Miss Hickin had been working on the revision of the Cardigan Bay and Pen Llyn a’r Sarnau SAC Management Scheme. The MBO had assisted with surveys and mussel bed inspections and was currently assisting Conwy County Borough Council with the Local Biodiversity Action Plan for skates and rays.

Miss Hickin pointed out that the main work consideration when she took over the post was fisheries assessments for the lobster and cockle fisheries in north and mid Wales and this work was still underway.

1. That the report be received.

The Chairman introduced the report updating Members on progress with Fishery Order applications and asked the Chief Executive for his comments.

Dr. Atkins reported that a copy of the application for the Menai (West) Order was included with the report. The WAG had subsequently requested further information and an Environmental Statement was in the process of being prepared. It was understood that the application for the renewal of the Conwy Mussel Fishery Order should be ready for submission to WAG in the near future.

With respect to the Morecambe Bay Several and Regulating Order renewal Members were advised the Management Plan was being finalised by the Fishery Orders Development Officer, Mr. Bob Houghton, and it was hoped the application would be ready for submission to DEFRA in the near future. Mr. Houghton had attended the Public Inquiry for the proposed Dee Estuary Regulating Order and his report provided at Annex B included implications for the proposed Morecambe Bay Order.

Members were reminded that the Crown Estate had given only partial consent to all three Orders. This consent had included a clause allowing them to give six months’ notice to withdraw their land from the Order. The proper consent of Crown Estate would be required for the application s to progress and Officers were actively seeking an early meeting with Crown Estates to try to resolve this matter.

                2. That the report be received.

The Chief Executive introduced the report outlining current staff issues and compliance with the Committee’s Health and Safety Policy.

1. That the report be received.

The Finance/Admin Officer introduced the report which provided Members with an up to date summary of the Committee’s financial situation. Additional expenditure had been incurred due to necessary repairs to ‘Aegis’ and with the likely increase in the rent arising from the move of the Committee’s offices the budget was presently running outside predicted levels. It was hoped that this situation could be rectified and that a break even budget could be achieved by the end of the year.

In response to a question about the Corporate/Democratic Core heading in the budget Mr. Davies advised Members that this was a standard term used by all local authorities and was the part of the budget that related to actual Committee business as distinct from the operational side.

Following a request from Councillor Friel for a more detailed breakdown of the Committee’s financial situation it was agreed to provide him with such a breakdown.

1. That the report be received.

In introducing the report on the proposed budget and levy for 2008/09 the Finance/Admin Officer outlined various major items which were likely to affect next year’s budget. These included an increase in the employer contributions to the Lancashire County Council Pension Fund, the impending move to new premises and an additional cost to cover the possibility of two meetings of the Scientific and Byelaws Sub-Committee being required during the year in addition to the four quarterly meetings of the Joint Committee.

Councillor Friel raised concerns about the non-inclusion of Liverpool City Council in the list of contributory authorities and suggested that an approach should be made to Liverpool inviting them to resume their involvement in the work and funding of the Joint Committee.

The Chief Executive pointed out that the constitution and funding of the Joint Committee was set up by Statutory Instrument and an approach to Liverpool at this time could only be made on a voluntary basis. He felt it might be more appropriate to leave such an approach until the implications of the proposed Marine Bill were known rather than taking action at this time.

Members raised concerns about the level of proposed increase in the levy taking into account the financial constraints currently on contributing councils. Councillor Owens of Denbighshire County Council asked that his Council’s objections to the increase be recorded.

Following a discussion it was

The Finance/Admin Officer introduced the report, which updated Members with the status of the Committee’s motor vehicles, quadcycles and Zodiac inflatable boats.

1. That the report be received.

The Finance/Admin Officer introduced the report outlining revised rates for charging out services and reminded Members that it had been agreed that the rates would be reviewed on a regular basis.

The Principal Fishery Officer presented report on the sea fisheries of the District and the work of the Joint Committee for the period 1^st May to 31^st July 2007. Netting activity had been quiet and angling boats had not ventured very far from their launch sites. The new Byelaw 30 for hobby fishermen had been well received by the public. The multi-agency approach to the new District-wide cockle and mussel permit scheme (Byelaw 5) seemed to be working well but enforcement of the scheme had created an increased financial burden on the Committee.

Mr. Boyce reported on problems with the Committee’s patrol vessel ‘Aegis’ where two major machinery breakdowns had occurred recently. A replacement vessel would be required at some time in the future although due to the proposed modernisation of SFCs the specifications for such a vessel could not be predicted. There was a limit to what could be done to prolong the working life of the vessel and Members were being alerted to the fact that there was no provision in the budget for a replacement vessel.

In response to a query from about a capital reserve fund, the Finance/Admin Officer advised Members that a figure of £80,000 remained after the purchase of ‘Aegis’ which was to be used towards the cost of any new vessel.

With respect to inshore fisheries management in Wales Mr. Boyce raised concerns that there was still no clear indication from the WAG about a strategy for the future. He asked the Welsh Members of the Committee for their support in urging the new Fisheries Minister to make an early decision on this.

1. That the report be received.

Councillor Friel asked through the Chair whether new Members could be given an opportunity to see some of the issues and problems faced by Officers at first hand.

The Principal Fishery Officer advised Members that a briefing similar to that organised for all new Members of the Committee at the beginning of the new Quadrennial period could be arranged. It was agreed that Mr. Boyce should make the necessary arrangements for such a briefing.

Mr. Hamer raised concerns that the meeting had not included discussions about the proposed wind farm developments which it was felt could have the effect of devastating the Fleetwood inshore fishery. The Chairman suggested that a full report on this could be provided to the next meeting of the Joint Committee and this was agreed.

Prof. Kaiser issued an open invitation for all Members of the Committee to attend a day at the University College of North Wales, Bangor, hosted by the University, at which issues of particular interest to Members could be discussed. Prof. Kaiser would try to arrange for experts with expertise on those topics to be available to answer Members’ queries.

The Chairman suggested that this could be incorporated into a meeting of the Scientific and Byelaws Sub-Committee and this was agreed.

There being no further business The Chairman thanked Members for attending and declared the meeting closed at 1240 hours.

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