I. V. Andrews V. Hickin

M. R. Boyce G. Hughes

W. Cook

Item 5. Report on meeting of Scientific and Byelaws Sub-Committee held on 20^th October 2006. Mrs. M. R. Owen.

Item 6. Progress with new Byelaws 5 and 30. A. Brecknell, R. J. Gorman, A. Jones, C. Woods.

Item 7. Seed Mussel Experimental Cultivation. Mr. K. Mould, Mrs. M. R. Owen, Mr. C. Woods.

Item. 8. Government Policy Development in England and Wales. Mr. A. Jones, Mr. C. Woods.

Item 10. Progress with Regulating Orders. Mr. T. Jones, Mr. K. Mould, Mrs. M. R. Owen, Mr. C. Woods.

Item 22. Proposed Measures for Bass. Mr. A. Jones, Mr. A. Marklew.

Item 23. DEFRA discussion paper on management measures for brown crab. Mr. R. J. Gorman.

Mr. Gorman advised Members that he had received a letter from WAG, amending the guidelines on declarations of interest, which suggested WAG appointees would not be bound to the same rules as those applying to local authority members. The Chief Executive reported that similar confirmation of a change in the guidelines had been received from Defra, with advice that although Ministers appointees were not bound by local authority rules, it would be sensible for Committees to follow the same guidelines as those provided to council representatives.

That the proceedings of the Joint Committee held on 8^th September be approved and signed as a correct record by the Chairman.

There were no matters arising.

The report of the Scientific and Byelaws Sub-Committee meeting held on 20^th October 2006 was presented by its Chairman, Mr. O. J. Roberts.

That the application to fish for seed mussels at Rhos-on-Sea be refused and the applicant be so advised.

That the minutes be amended as suggested.

That Members agree the amendment to Minute No. 8 – Scalloping in Wales.

The Principal Fishery Officer reported that the new Byelaws 5 and 30 had been submitted to DEFRA and WAG for confirmation. 14 objections had been received to the byelaws but none of those objections were considered by Officers to be valid or substantive. DEFRA and WAG had been asked to overrule their objections and their response was awaited.

Mr. Woods raised concerns that some of the 550 people already having taken the GTA safety training course may be foreign nationals with limited or no English who would not be able to contact the appropriate services in the event of an emergency. Mr. Boyce informed Members that certificates should not be issued to any person who was not fully aware of all aspects of safety within the fishery. It was suggested that the GTA be asked to provide that assurance.

The Senior Scientific Officer updated Members on proposals for experimental seed mussel relaying in Morecambe Bay. During the summer of 2006 the Committee had authorised experimental mussel cultivation on the south side of Morecambe Bay under Byelaw 1. Since that authorisation was issued no activity had taken place.

Seven further applications for Byelaw 1 authorisations had been received since the Scientific and Byelaws meeting on 20^th October, six of which were for the area known as "Barrow 2", with the seventh being an application to carry out similar trials within the North Walney Channel area. Officers were recommending that the Committee should agree the trial relaying of mussels in the proposed areas, but only permit harvesting of mussels by dredging under Byelaw 12. It was suggested that the Committee should authorise a single trial over a maximum area of 20ha within the "Barrow 2" area, provided the agreement of Natural England was received. Officers further suggested that a paper should be prepared on this general subject and submitted to the next Joint Committee or Scientific and Byelaws meeting in order to consider a way forward.

Mr. Mould felt that the Scientific and Byelaws may not be the best option for discussion of this matter and proposed that a working party should be set up.

Following a discussion it was

The Chief Executive presented the report updating Members on Government policy in NAW and dEFRA, which may have an impact on the future role and remit of SFCs. There had been little change in the proposals for England since the last meeting. A White Paper is likely to be published in early 2007, with a Marine Bill proposed for 2008.

In Wales Officers had given presentations and provided briefings to AMs and MPs, which had been positive and beneficial, resulting in renewed interest in the work of the Committee. The Minister for Environment, Planning & Countryside, Mr. Carwyn Jones, had turned down requests for a meeting with both SFCs in Wales. A meeting had been held with WAG officials on 9^th November when it was stated that no decision had yet been made on the future of SFCs. WAG had set out a time-scale for the proposals and had accepted that a decision would not be made before the elections in 2007. Officers suggested that a much more comprehensive and thorough study of the best way forward in Wales was needed, and it was considered that the future of inshore fisheries management would be better placed within the overall Welsh Fisheries Strategy.

Mr. Gorman said he had always favoured an all Wales Committee and felt that option would also find favour with most people in Wales. He had concerns about taking the function ‘in-house’ in Cardiff but felt the Committee should be realistic and not fight for the status quo.

Councillor Griffiths felt that the WAG Minister was being discourteous in declining a meeting with SFCS and asked that that Committee’s disappointment in that decision be recorded. He proposed that Mr. Carwyn Jones should be invited to attend a Committee meeting to observe the proceedings of the Joint Committee at first hand

The Senior Scientific Officer presented the report, which informed Members of developments in the post of Marine Biodiversity Officer. The original post-holder, Miss Ingrid Iredale, had become unwell during the summer and had not been able to continue in the position. Miss Iredale’s contract expired in November 2006 and she had informed Officers that she did not wish her contract to be renewed. CCW had agreed to the post being continued until February 2007 and Miss Vickie Hickin had been appointed to replace Miss Iredale until that time. CCW have been approached for grant aid to continue the post for a further four year period following completion of the current work programme.

Mr. Alwyn Jones pointed out that most of the work undertaken so far appeared to be on cockles and mussels and asked if the remit could be extended to include other species such as cockles. Mr. Cook advised Members that to date the cockle and mussel fisheries had been the prime targets. Scalloping was one of the biggest issues of concern at present and it was hoped that if CCW were to agree to an extension of the post, time could be spent on addressing those concerns.

The Chairman informed Members that he had written to Miss Iredale on the Committee’s behalf to thank her for the work she had carried out during her period of service with the Joint Committee.

The Senior Scientific Officer presented the report informing Members of progress with the renewal of the Fishery Orders for Morecambe Bay, Conwy and Menai Strait (West). Members were advised that the Morecambe Bay Regulating Order was due to expire in January 2009 and Officers were looking at the possibility of creating a hybrid Order. The newly appointed Fishery Orders Development Officer, Bob Houghton, had carried out wide consultation with land owners within Morecambe Bay who had, in the main, responded favourably. Informal consultation had begun with stakeholder groups and a management plan for the area would be developed in the next year. Messrs. Cook and Houghton had met with DEFRA officials to discuss the renewal of the Order and DEFRA appeared keen to progress this. DEFRA officials had agreed to visit Morecambe Bay in January to see the area concerned at first hand.

SFO Greta Hughes reported on progress with the Conwy and Menai Strait (West) Regulating Orders, due to expire in 2008, which were being progressed on a parallel basis. Consultation had taken place with licence holders and a way forward agreed. It was felt that for the Menai Strait (West) Order the status quo would need to be maintained. For Conwy a hybrid Order was proposed which would underpin the old traditional method with a more modern method. The help of CCW Officers in providing material to help progress the Order was acknowledged.

Mrs. Owen informed Members that a copy of the regulations for the Solway fishery was available which she would pass to Mr. Cook. She hoped this would assist the Committee when drawing up its own regulations for Morecambe Bay.

Following further discussions it was

The Chief Executive presented the report on staffing and welcomed Miss Vickie Hickin, the new Marine Biodiversity Officer.

Dr. Atkins advised Members that SFO Keith Stone had reached retirement age in November 2006 but had requested to continue working until March 2007. The post of Fishery Officer for the Southern Area had now been advertised and interviews would be carried out in the week beginning 11^th December. It was hoped an appointment would be made at that time and Members would be advised of the new post-holder at the next meeting of the Joint Committee.

The Chief Executive reported that a SFO had been involved in a ‘near miss’ incident in the Warton Sands area of Morecambe Bay where he had come close to being trapped by sinking sand and losing an ATV. He had been assisted by an accompanying Officer and no injury to the Officer or loss of equipment had occurred. The incident highlighted the importance of the safety training course and Officers had subsequently reviewed the Task Risk Assessment for working on the intertidal areas of Morecambe Bay.

That the report be received.

The Finance/Admin Officer reported that in 1996 the Committee had approved rates for charging out services. This related mainly to providing samples under the shellfish Hygiene Regulations. A revised scale of charges was provided at Annex A to the report and Members’ approval of the new rates was sought. Officers were also seeking Members’ guidance as to whether any future variations to those charges should be referred to the Joint Committee.

Following a discussion it was

The Finance/Admin Officer presented the report advising Members of recent legislative changes which would affect the way the Committee’s accounts were presented in future, and to highlight an item which was no longer required to be included in future years’ accounts.

Members were advised that the Committee is no longer required to provide the detailed form of the Statement of Accounts that have been done in the past and the minimum audit requirement was now just the completion of an Annual Return which would be audited by the Audit Commission. Officers intended to continue presenting the Annual Statement of Accounts as in the past, with one possible exception. The Committee had been obliged, in the past few years, to provide information on pensions disclosures. There is no longer a legal obligation to comply with that requirement and Members’ views were sought on whether to exclude FRS17 pensions disclosures in future.

Following a discussion it was

Mr. Davies presented the report introducing Members to the new form of Annual Return and to obtain approval for the 2005/06 Return.

Mr. Davies presented the report providing Members with an up to date summary of the Committee’s financial situation. Fuel prices were high and that situation was likely to continue, otherwise expenditure was basically in line with expectations.

In response to a query from Mr. Hamer as to whether an approach had yet been made to Liverpool City Council on the question of re-joining the Committee, Members were advised that Councillor Friel had suggested that as a way of opening dialogue with Liverpool, he would try to arrange an invitation for the Chief Executive to attend one of Liverpool’s Committee meetings to give a presentation on the overall role and remit of the Committee and the advantages to Liverpool of their membership on the Joint Committee. No further progress had been made on that approach to date. Members were advised that to bring Liverpool in as a contributing authority would require a change in the Statutory Instrument.

Mr. Hamer felt that Officers should write to Liverpool City Council Chief Executive requesting that this Committee’s Chief Executive be permitted to attend one of their meetings to give a presentation. The Chairman suggested that Officers should contact Councillor Friel to see what progress he had made on this matter before taking any other action.

That the report be received.

The Principal Fishery Officer presented the report on the sea fisheries of the District and the work of the Joint Committee for the period 1^st August 2006 to 31^st October 2006. It had been a busy period that saw the end of the lobster v notching programme in Wales. The project, which had been very successful, had been welcomed by industry generally. There had generally been good compliance with the new Byelaw 14 (Closed Season for Cockle Harvesting), with a few minor infringements and court cases pending. Cockle gathering had taken place on Traeth Lafan and currently about 30-40 people were taking part in this fishery. The future of the Committee in Wales was causing concern amongst enforcement staff who found the situation very demoralising.

In response to a question from Mr. Hamer as to when the cockle beds in Morecambe Bay would likely open, the Principal Fishery Officer advised Members that stocks would be reviewed in January. If the beds were not opened in February the seasonal closure would come into force on 1^st May and beds would not open then until at least 1^st September. Mr. Hamer asked that an update on the situation be given at the next meeting of the Joint Committee.

With respect to the proposed Morecambe Bay Regulating Order Members raised concerns on the number of permits proposed. Members were reminded that the Committee could not restrict the numbers of permits issued and although DEFRA had been pressed on the question of restricting number they would not allow that.

The Chief Executive reported on a meeting of the Association of Sea Fisheries Committees held on 20^th September 2006. The meeting had been attended by the Chairman and himself. The main items discussed were the future of Committees and Marine Bill, Bass measures, Gangmaster Licensing Authority and joint working arrangements between SFCs, Environment Agency and Marine Fisheries Agency.

That the report be received.

The Chairman introduced report and reminded Members of the recommendations

There was nothing to report on this group at the present time.

In presenting the report the Chief Executive reminded Members that this had been tabled as a Supplementary Agenda item.

The Principal Fishery Officer provided the background to the report. He advised Members that Ministers were requesting SFCs to consider introducing bag limit byelaws in order to curtail the illegal sale of bass by unlicensed and unregistered fishermen. A meeting was held in Aberystwyth on 23^rd November at which the Ministers request had been discussed and a bag limit of 5 had been considered an appropriate number. The proposed byelaw would not cover netsmen or angling from the shore and Officers felt this to be discriminatory. Officers consider that the byelaw should be part of a package that also looked at the protection of Bass Nursery Areas.

Mrs. Owen suggested that more publicity on this subject was needed in order to make people aware of the illegal sales of bass. Mr. Alwyn Jones agreed with those comments and informed Members that the North Wales coast experienced similar problems with sales of illegal fish.

In response to a point raised by Mr. Marklew that the Scientific and Byelaws had agreed that a bag limit of 2 would be appropriate, the Chief Executive advised Members that most of the English SFCs were looking at a higher number than Wales, and that DEFRA and NAW are recommending a limit of 5 per person per day. The differences between England and Wales would be difficult to resolve and enforce.

Mr. Hancock said he had tried to consult with angling bodies on their perception of the recommendations. They were in favour of bag limits as long as they were part and parcel of more realistic management measures.

Following further discussion it was

Dr. Atkins presented the report informing Members about DEFRA’s proposals for this fishery. An informal discussion paper had been published on 24^th November to which stakeholders were invited to respond. Officers do not think that regulation within this Committee’s District would likely be needed. If Members had any comments they would like included in a Committee response, these should be sent to the Chief Executive by the end of December 2006.

1. Principal Fishery Officers report

There being no further business the Chairman thanked Members for attending and declared the meeting closed at 1255 hours.